...making Linux just a little more fun!
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
Hi, all -
I've been trying to do some research on this topic, but am coming up dry (or at least very sparse on good choices.) I'm hoping that someone here will have an answer.
A few days ago, I got an AirPort Extreme - a wireless bridge + USB gadget from Apple - so I could "unwire" my poor spiderwebbed laptop. Had to set it up on a Windows machine [1], then started playing around with the possibilities. Plugged in my new high-gain "client bridge" that's up my mast (really, really impressive gadget, by the way - https://islandtimepc.com/marine_wifi.html) - PoE connector snaps right into the WAN plug, AirPort hooks into it, life is good. Plugged in a USB hub, hooked up my HP printer, told the AirPort software to share it - OK, that's all fine too. Hooked up the external hard drive... um. Well, OK, a few hours of struggling with Windows file sharing, and Samba, and more file sharing, and... argh. My external HD is formatted as ext3, so - no joy there, despite Macs running BSD these days. No way am I going to reformat it. Also, plugging in an external CD-ROM was a total fail: the AirPort doesn't recognize it, even when plugged in directly without a hub. In addition, there's no HTTP interface on this thing: you have to use their (Windows or Mac only) software to talk to it.
So, the AirPort is going back to the store - but now, I'm stuck with a dream. It would be really, really nice to just connect power and maybe an external monitor to the laptop, and have the external drive, a CD-ROM, the printer, and the network all available wirelessly. After noodling on this for a bit, a small light went on. I said to myself: "Self... what if you had a small beige box of some sort that was running Linux and had all that stuff plugged into it?" At that point, none of the above peripherals would present a problem: they'd just be available stuff, accessible via standard protocols.
The only question is, what's the cheapest, smallest box that I can get? Obviously, it needs to have at least one USB port, one Ethernet port, and be accessible via WiFi. If it runs on 12 volts, that would be a great plus. Recommendations on a flavor of Linux to run on this gadget would also be welcome.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
[1] All FOSS-vs.-proprietary rhetoric aside... how the HELL do people put up with Windows? I had to struggle through so many "YOUR MACHINE MAY BE INFECTED!!! BUY OUR SOFTWARE ***NOW!!!***" warnings, update-and-reboot repeats, instances of software automatically firing up a browser and taking you to the company webpage, and completely senseless procedures ("sharing" a network-accessible disk is a complete lather-rinse-repeat nightmare) that I found myself literally screaming "STOP already!" in frustration. And I'm not what you'd call computer-illiterate, nor completely unfamiliar with Windows - although I haven't used it in several years. That was just a horrible experience that I hope I never have to repeat.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * https://LinuxGazette.NET *
René Pfeiffer [lynx at luchs.at]
On Jul 01, 2010 at 1259 -0400, Ben Okopnik appeared and said:
> [...] > The only question is, what's the cheapest, smallest box that I can get? > Obviously, it needs to have at least one USB port, one Ethernet port, > and be accessible via WiFi. If it runs on 12 volts, that would be a > great plus. Recommendations on a flavor of Linux to run on this > gadget would also be welcome.
Our media PC is a small Atom box which can also double as a workstation: https://www.ditech.at/artikel/MPCE2G0/PC-System_-_dimotion_Micro_E2G0.html
Unfortunately I only have this link. It's propably a rebranded version of something else. I am not sure about the 12V, because it is listed with 19V DC. Our media PC has a WiFi card, too.
You can also built something out of the bare bits. The Atom boards are quite cheap, but you'd have to use an additional card for WiFi.
> [1] All FOSS-vs.-proprietary rhetoric aside... how the HELL do people > put up with Windows? [...]
With proper medication.
Best, René.
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 07:17:15PM +0200, René Pfeiffer wrote:
> On Jul 01, 2010 at 1259 -0400, Ben Okopnik appeared and said: > > [...] > > The only question is, what's the cheapest, smallest box that I can get? > > Obviously, it needs to have at least one USB port, one Ethernet port, > > and be accessible via WiFi. If it runs on 12 volts, that would be a > > great plus. Recommendations on a flavor of Linux to run on this > > gadget would also be welcome. > > Our media PC is a small Atom box which can also double as a workstation: > https://www.ditech.at/artikel/MPCE2G0/PC-System_-_dimotion_Micro_E2G0.html > > Unfortunately I only have this link. It's propably a rebranded version > of something else. I am not sure about the 12V, because it is listed > with 19V DC. > Our media PC has a WiFi card, too.
Well, at that price, using a low-end netbook as a bridge, etc. begins to
make sense. That's an option too, of course.
I should have mentioned that I'd rotated that possibility through my
brain, as well; in other words, I know that a solution exists, now it's
just a matter of tuning the "cheapest/easiest/most convenient" 3-D shape
for the best fit.
> You can also built something out of the bare bits. The Atom boards are > quite cheap, but you'd have to use an additional card for WiFi.
Oh? I'm not at all familiar with that end of the world; that sounds like it has possibilities. Any keywords to search for?
> > [1] All FOSS-vs.-proprietary rhetoric aside... how the HELL do people > > put up with Windows? [...] > > With proper medication.
I always had a feeling that "Dopewars" wasn't developed on/for Linux... explains a lot of things.
If Operating Systems Were Drugs ------------------------------- DOS: 'Ludes, with a Rasta trumpet smoked for dessert. Like, the world is nothin' but an illusion, but it's all chill, man. If you stare at the prompt long enough, you'll be able to see Haile Selassie's face... hey, you got any munchies? 'Cause, no, seriously, I got this theory of, like, space and time, and life and shit like that, and - did I tell you about the time the aliens took me up in their UFO?... man, they got that killer alien weed, kinda like Maui Black but it's got, like, sparkles in it... did you ever meet, like, any people from northern Outer Mongolia? They're a TRIP, man. Linux: Ecstasy (why did you think it was called *X*-Windows, dude???) Results in a feeling of universal love, increased clarity of thought, empathogenesis, entactogenesis, proprioception, and the desire to talk like you swallowed a dictionary. Windows: Huffing spray paint while smoking crack cocaine+PCP, with the attendant possibility of a huge motherin' explosion. Has the synergistic effect of making you look (and *be*) ever more stupid while getting increasingly homicidal and hyperactive while already jonesing for the next hit. aNdTHEnthEspidersCOMEOUToFtHeWaLlSanDEAtYouRBRAINNNN!!!!!!
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * https://LinuxGazette.NET *
Neil Youngman [ny at youngman.org.uk]
On Thursday 01 July 2010 17:59:55 Ben Okopnik wrote:
> The only question is, what's the cheapest, smallest box that I can get? > Obviously, it needs to have at least one USB port, one Ethernet port, > and be accessible via WiFi. If it runs on 12 volts, that would be a > great plus. Recommendations on a flavor of Linux to run on this > gadget would also be welcome.
The Aleutia T1 is a 12 volt device, Ubuntu preinstalled at no extra cost. Wifi is extra. I have no experience of this device, but it looks as though it could be suitable?
https://www.aleutia.com/products/t1
Neil
René Pfeiffer [lynx at luchs.at]
On Jul 01, 2010 at 1451 -0400, Ben Okopnik appeared and said:
> On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 07:17:15PM +0200, René Pfeiffer wrote: > [...] > > You can also built something out of the bare bits. The Atom boards are > > quite cheap, but you'd have to use an additional card for WiFi. > > Oh? I'm not at all familiar with that end of the world; that sounds like > it has possibilities. Any keywords to search for?
Yes, I use D945GCLF or D510MO boards for testing and low-powered servers: https://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/d945gclf/d945gclf-overview.htm https://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/D510MO/D510MO-overview.htm
You can run workstations with it, too. A stock Ubuntu or Debian works well with Xfce (and even some eye candy).
Best, René.
Kapil Hari Paranjape [kapil at imsc.res.in]
Hello,
On Thu, 01 Jul 2010, Ben Okopnik wrote:
> The only question is, what's the cheapest, smallest box that I can get? > Obviously, it needs to have at least one USB port, one Ethernet port, > and be accessible via WiFi. If it runs on 12 volts, that would be a > great plus. Recommendations on a flavor of Linux to run on this > gadget would also be welcome.
You may want to look at the "Guruplug"
https://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/t-guruplugdetails.aspx
I haven't used it myself.
Kapil Hari Paranjape --
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 08:49:17PM +0100, Neil Youngman wrote:
> > The Aleutia T1 is a 12 volt device, Ubuntu preinstalled at no extra cost. Wifi > is extra. I have no experience of this device, but it looks as though it > could be suitable? > > https://www.aleutia.com/products/t1
That looks pretty good - thanks, Neil! Unfortunately, the price is nearly that of a cheap netbook - which I'm starting to incline to, given what's been suggested here so far and what I've seen in my own searches based on those suggestions. In fact, other than Kapil's suggestion (the GuruPlug), there's not much available in user-ready configurations - and even the GuruPlug requires a "JTAG" box to fully program it, which is less than stellar. It seems that there's quite a bit of demand for this kind of thing, but the supply side is still mostly in development.
I'm guessing that this kind of stuff will be rather ubiquitous within the next couple of years... it's just not here yet. Oh well. Perhaps a netbook is the right answer, especially since it can serve as a backup if my primary netbook fails (and the backup drive would be right there, too.)
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * https://LinuxGazette.NET *
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Thu, Jul 01, 2010 at 10:07:14PM +0200, René Pfeiffer wrote:
> On Jul 01, 2010 at 1451 -0400, Ben Okopnik appeared and said: > > > > Oh? I'm not at all familiar with that end of the world; that sounds like > > it has possibilities. Any keywords to search for? > > Yes, I use D945GCLF or D510MO boards for testing and low-powered > servers: > https://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/d945gclf/d945gclf-overview.htm > https://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/D510MO/D510MO-overview.htm > > You can run workstations with it, too. A stock Ubuntu or Debian works > well with Xfce (and even some eye candy).
Ah, OK. I'd have to add WiFi and build a case, though - computers don't like the temperature fluctuations that we humans just shrug off. That's a costly and somewhat inconvenient option for this, but I'll keep it in mind for other things. Thanks!
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * https://LinuxGazette.NET *
Ben Okopnik [ben at okopnik.com]
On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 06:23:02AM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote:
> Hello, > > On Thu, 01 Jul 2010, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > The only question is, what's the cheapest, smallest box that I can get? > > Obviously, it needs to have at least one USB port, one Ethernet port, > > and be accessible via WiFi. If it runs on 12 volts, that would be a > > great plus. Recommendations on a flavor of Linux to run on this > > gadget would also be welcome. > > You may want to look at the "Guruplug" > > https://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/t-guruplugdetails.aspx
That looks absolutely perfect for the job... unfortunately, it still
seems to be in the beta-test stage (the marketing is mostly oriented
toward developers), and takes about 4 weeks to ship. (( Plus, the
whole thing with the JTAG interface is rather confusing: is it actually
required to get the thing running, or is it just a developer toy/tool? I
really do wish that it was easily available, though: the "server" model
seems to be precisely what I need, in a tiny wall-wart package, at a
good price. Darn it.
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Kapil Hari Paranjape [kapil at imsc.res.in]
Hello,
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010, Ben Okopnik wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 06:23:02AM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > You may want to look at the "Guruplug" > > > > https://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/t-guruplugdetails.aspx > > That looks absolutely perfect for the job... unfortunately, it still > seems to be in the beta-test stage (the marketing is mostly oriented > toward developers), and takes about 4 weeks to ship.((
That is a pain! However, check the ionics versions at https://www.ionicsplug.com/ if there is something there that will do the job for you.
> Plus, the whole thing with the JTAG interface is rather confusing: > is it actually required to get the thing running, or is it just a > developer toy/tool?
The JTAG interface is insurance against "bricking" the device.
Martin Michlmayr is the Debian developer who has put a lot of his time and effort into running Debian on these devices. The following web page https://www.cyrius.com/debian/kirkwood/sheevaplug/plugs.html documents his success and otherwise. To quote him:
"The development kits include a debugging module (either internally or externally) that offers access to the serial console and to JTAG. This debugging option is important in case something goes wrong with the installation or operation of Debian. Because of the importance of the debugging module, I'm only planning to support development kits."
Note however, that the non-development versions can work just fine as long as you don't mind the limitations of the pre-installed software. (At least one or two plugs appear to have some version of Ubuntu pre-installed!)
However, the fully supported (by Debian) devices are currently WiFi-less.
> I really do wish that it was easily available, though: the "server" > model seems to be precisely what I need, in a tiny wall-wart > package, at a good price. Darn it.
On the whole I agree with you that none of the devices seems likely to fit into your needs without some tweaking and the accompanying risks of loss of time!
Kapil. --
Kapil Hari Paranjape [kapil at imsc.res.in]
Hello,
On Fri, 02 Jul 2010, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote:
> Note however, that the non-development versions can work just fine as > long as you don't mind the limitations of the pre-installed software. > (At least one or two plugs appear to have some version of Ubuntu > pre-installed!)
A list of pre-configured devices and additional info can be found on the plug computer wiki at https://plugcomputer.org/plugwiki
Kapil. --
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 10:34:39PM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote:
> Hello, > > On Fri, 02 Jul 2010, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 06:23:02AM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > > You may want to look at the "Guruplug" > > > > > > https://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/t-guruplugdetails.aspx > > > > That looks absolutely perfect for the job... unfortunately, it still > > seems to be in the beta-test stage (the marketing is mostly oriented > > toward developers), and takes about 4 weeks to ship.
Wow - nice. The Nimbus 2000 seems like exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for; WiFi, USB, and Ethernet, with Linux already on board, but most of their products are usable for this application. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be actually available: searching the Net got me no useful results.
> > Plus, the whole thing with the JTAG interface is rather confusing: > > is it actually required to get the thing running, or is it just a > > developer toy/tool? > > The JTAG interface is insurance against "bricking" the device.
I see.
> However, the fully supported (by Debian) devices are currently > WiFi-less.
Whoops... that takes right off the table, for me.
> > I really do wish that it was easily available, though: the "server" > > model seems to be precisely what I need, in a tiny wall-wart > > package, at a good price. Darn it. > > On the whole I agree with you that none of the devices seems likely > to fit into your needs without some tweaking and the accompanying > risks of loss of time!
Oh, it's not so much a question of that - tweaking (and getting buried
in it) is pretty much a constant factor if you a) run Linux and b) are
curious. I mean, setting up a netbook to work the way I need it to is
going to take tweaking and time and effort. I'm just saying it would be
nice to see a tiny box like the Nimbus 2000 where I can stick it in a
socket, connect it to the network with an Ethernet cable, hook it into a
USB hub to a bunch'o'devices, and have it be a WiFi-accessible AP (with
all those resources available to be used) from then on. This does not
seem like an unreasonable thing to ask; you can do this with even an
ancient, crappy desktop. Seems to me like an appliance of this sort
would be a very popular gadget... I guess these vendors are thinking
along the same lines, or are at least starting to.
Either I'm ahead of the times, or they're running behind.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * https://LinuxGazette.NET *