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Thomas Adam [thomas.adam22 at gmail.com]
2009/1/26 Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com>:
> Quoting Thomas Adam (thomas.adam22@gmail.com): > >> 2009/1/26 Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com>: >> > 1. Volunteer to administer the school's network. >> > >> > 2. Look up the phrase "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" >> >> Surely 2., is only applicable if 1. becomes true for him?> > The #2 item was in part incentive for item #1. > > ("Who is Number One?" "That would be telling.")
Ah. A fan of McGoohan, are you?
-- Thomas Adam
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
Quoting Thomas Adam (thomas.adam22@gmail.com):
> Ah. A fan of McGoohan, are you?
"Which side are you on?"
Very first television I ever watched was _The Prisoner_ and _Doctor Who_ (Third Doctor; Jon Pertwee) on Rediffusion Television (sort-of the local ITV franchise), while Clan Moen lived at 7B Bowen Road, Flat 19A, Victoria, Hong Kong RCC in the 1960s.
My boyhood nightmares often featured a white weather balloon.
Broadcast offerings in HK at the time tended to be either Rediffusion TV or Cantonese opera. (Mum and I had fun inventing dialogue for the latter: MST3k was invented there, first.)
Thomas Adam [thomas.adam22 at gmail.com]
2009/1/27 Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com>:
> Quoting Thomas Adam (thomas.adam22@gmail.com): > >> Ah. A fan of McGoohan, are you?
I actually went to Portmeirion last year -- alas, not inside The
Village, but right up to the entrance, and in so doing saw some of The
Village; it really is exactly as in the TV series -- amazing!
Be Seeing You[1]....
-- Thomas Adam
[1] Sad news: https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7829267.stm
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
Quoting Thomas Adam (thomas.adam22@gmail.com):
> [1] Sad news: https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7829267.stm
Yes, we're all well aware, around here. (The San Francisco Bay Area is something of a hotbed of Prisoner and McGoohan fans.)
My somewhat mordant comment when I first heard the news: "Odds are he won't live to see tomorrow." (Funny only if you're familiar with the Johnny Rivers theme song used during rebroadcast of Danger Man in the US.)
Although certainly many fine people who take better care of themselves don't have the privilege of living to 80 years, I started getting the impression in McGoohan's 1970s appearances -- where he was looking very badly aged -- that the man was drinking himself to death. I could be entirely wrong, but what's that old expression? "Is life worth living? It all depends on the liver."
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
[snipping querent:]
I wrote:
> Quoting Thomas Adam (thomas.adam22@gmail.com): > > > [1] Sad news: https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7829267.stm
Even before McGoohan's demise, I was busy reassessing what I'd remembered, and revisiting old clips of both Danger Man (/Secret Agent) and The Prisoner.
There's a saying (attributed to one Peter Graham) that "The golden age of science fiction is twelve", i.e., that what you first encounter as a child becomes, for you, the functional prototype of that thing and somewhat immune from critical scrutiny. With me, the applicable age was eight, but the same principle applies. So, with my memory of there having been something utterly magical about The Prisoner being, well, at least ripe for re-examination, I've been intending to watch the whole thing properly, again -- to see how much was groundbreaking and wonderful, and how much was 1960s delusion and self-important but vapid portentiousness.
A couple of things have already become apparent: One is a reminder of how much the British society of my youth was rather misogynistic by modern standards (including, of course, those of modern Britain), though I couldn't see it at the time. I've read a number of comments by Diana Rigg about her years doing The Avengers, that support my conclusion on that matter: She was treated not as a real co-star, but rather as just another disposable actress.
Another is a matter that will be familiar to TAG posters: The knee-jerk suspicion of computers as being automatically an instrument of oppression (e.g., Prisoner episode "The General") seems quaint and clueless in retrospect.
Anyway, it's a real kick to see London as it was then (title scenes, plus concluding episode), and what's different and what's not. (I said to Deirdre: "Look, no London Eye!")
McGoohan turns out to have been born in Astoria, Borough of Queens, New York City, to Irish parents. The fact that he was of Irish origins would be obvious to anyone who wasn't an eight-year-old expatriate American trying to absorb all of British society wholesale -- and even I in my uncritical state of mind might have grasped that, if I'd known his full name: Patrick Joseph McGoohan -- which in retrospect is about as quintessentially Irish a name as my wife's (Deirdre Saoirse Maloy). I myself, at the time, thought of McGoohan as being the very prototype of a good British actor.
His parents moved back, however, to County Leitrim, Irish Republic, where he lived on a farm until age seven, when they all moved to Sheffield -- young Patrick's own Golden Age city.
So, he seemed to come out of nowhere as a powerful stage actor (especially in the lead role in Ibsen's "Brand") in the 1950s, pole-vaulting directly into being a leading man in Lew Grade's ITV -- but was reportedly perceived as being a really good Irish actor, despite being a young man from Sheffield.
In at least one of the Prisoner episodes he wrote, he used the pseudonym "Paddy Fitz". As people say in California, it seems likely he Had Issues -- i.e., over being regarded as an outsider in British society. My point, of course, is that, again, Things Have Changed: People can speak of Freema Agyeman as a British actress with no eyebrows being raised. (Hey, she's from Hackney and Islington, f'rheaven's sake.)
Thomas Adam [thomas.adam22 at gmail.com]
2009/1/27 Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com>:
> There's a saying (attributed to one Peter Graham) that "The golden age > of science fiction is twelve", i.e., that what you first encounter as a
Indeed -- I believe I've heard this before, and for me it would have
to be the original "Lost In Space". That was so bad, it's almost
considered good.
> A couple of things have already become apparent: One is a reminder of > how much the British society of my youth was rather misogynistic by > modern standards (including, of course, those of modern Britain), though > I couldn't see it at the time. I've read a number of comments by Diana > Rigg about her years doing The Avengers, that support my conclusion on > that matter: She was treated not as a real co-star, but rather as just > another disposable actress.
Oh absolutely -- she was one of many of her generation who suffered the same consigned fate -- she was dispensable, although she managed to survive as appearing in James Bond after her stint in The Avengers. Alas, the timing of all of that was very much a male-dominated acting period (c.f. Simon Templar in The Saint (Roger Moore -- his female companions sufffered simialr fates.)
> Another is a matter that will be familiar to TAG posters: The knee-jerk > suspicion of computers as being automatically an instrument of > oppression (e.g., Prisoner episode "The General") seems quaint and > clueless in retrospect.
A good episode and an important one for us all to remember.
> Anyway, it's a real kick to see London as it was then (title scenes, > plus concluding episode), and what's different and what's not. (I said > to Deirdre: "Look, no London Eye!")
Heh. But you're getting old it seems, Rick. The Eye is an
unnecessary clutter, if you ask me. When I went to London for the
first time in my childhood in the late eighties, it was nice -- dim,
dank, busy... now, it's full of... I don't know what, where buildings
are the main focus rather than industry. Mind you, pockets of London
do still retain their worth (Soho for instance.)
> So, he seemed to come out of nowhere as a powerful stage actor > (especially in the lead role in Ibsen's "Brand") in the 1950s,
I've really wanted to see this (being a huge Ibsen fan) but it's unlikely it was ever recorded. I've looked for a long time and never found such a thing, alas.
> In at least one of the Prisoner episodes he wrote, he used the pseudonym > "Paddy Fitz". As people say in California, it seems likely he Had Issues
Heh, yes. Very fitting,
> -- i.e., over being regarded as an outsider in British society. My > point, of course, is that, again, Things Have Changed: People can speak > of Freema Agyeman as a British actress with no eyebrows being raised. > (Hey, she's from Hackney and Islington, f'rheaven's sake.)
Black cabs and confusion then.
-- Thomas Adam
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
Quoting Thomas Adam (thomas.adam22@gmail.com):
> Heh. But you're getting old it seems, Rick.
Well, I am, indeed -- and it's an odd sort of thing, because I consistently hear my age guesstimated as around 35 even by people who know me well[1], which means that I've so far done well in the genetic lottery and haven't made any horrific strategic mistakes -- which typically seems to mean cigarettes or boozing. And also because my father was killed at the age of 47 -- which means that (on an emotional level) I just never expected to survive to anything beyond that.
This matter wasn't really driven home to me until late last year, when I finally got around to attending an alumni event, after decades of ignoring my local club, Princeton Club of Northern California (but paying its dues). Deirdre and I went to San Francisco to attend the club's annual dinner, partly because of the wonderful after-dinner speaker, a digression I'll skip over, at this point.
Before the dinner, I was wandering the hall, trying not to be too obvious about peering at name-tags, searching to see if anyone from my class (1980) happened to be present. I figured: Look for people who appear to be about my age, then look at class years on their nametags. But every time I found someone who looked about like my age, his/her class year turned out to be 1997 or so.
I never did find any 1980 alumni/alumnae, but all of the nearby class years appeared to be, well, quite aged. Something horrific in the water in central New Jersey that I had luckily avoided? It was all a bit discomfiting. Of course, I do recall that, again, alcohol was very big in the prevailing Ivy League social culture, so that might be part of the problem.
> The Eye is an unnecessary clutter, if you ask me.
But very handy if you're a Nestene Consciousness needing a transmitter.
(I personally consider the London Eye pretty tacky, and actually declined an offer to accompany Deirdre and my mother-in-law Cheryl on a spin. I went for a stroll around my old neighbourhood in Southwark, insted.)
[1] When I was working at VA Linux Systems, my co-worker Neil Doane asked me idly if I'd "watched GI-Joe when I was a kid" I said: "I think you're off by a few decades." (Mom and Dad were not big on "war toys" during the Vietnam War era when I was a boy, and that was a time when "GI-Joe" referred to small plastic soldier figurines, only -- and broadcast cartoons came only two decades later.) Intrigued, Neil asked me how old I was, since I considered his question a bit comical. I told him ("I'm an Eisenhower kid, Neil"), and he said "Dude! No way!"
My own current co-workers seemed to have had the same sort of perception: I saw double-takes when I mentioned having run doorbells for Bobby Kennedy's presidential campaign.
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
Quoting Rick Moen (rick@linuxmafia.com):
> (I personally consider the London Eye pretty tacky, and actually > declined an offer to accompany Deirdre and my mother-in-law Cheryl on a > spin. I went for a stroll around my old neighbourhood in Southwark, > insted.)^ "instead". (I've been in London any number of times for short stays, but also for an entire summer while staying at a borrowed flat on Trinity Church Square, Southwark -- just off Borough High Street. And yes, that was during the Edward Heath administration.)
> My own current co-workers seemed to have had the same sort of > perception: I saw double-takes when I mentioned having run doorbells^
> for Bobby Kennedy's presidential campaign.
"rung".
Part of my really bad luck in political candidates, having also been a volunteer for San Francisco Mayor George Moscone, and for my Congressman Leo J. Ryan. (See: Dan White and Jonestown, respectively.)