...making Linux just a little more fun!
[ In reference to "Book Review: CUPS Administrative Guide" in LG#157 ]
Neil Youngman [ny at youngman.org.uk]
One for pedants corner here.
I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder where this variant came from. I have seen this before in many technical articles and I would like to know whether all USians use administrate instead of administer, or whether it is specific to the administration of computers?
Neil
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
Quoting Neil Youngman (ny@youngman.org.uk):
> One for pedants corner here. > > I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where > to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder > where this variant came from. I have seen this before in many > technical articles and I would like to know whether all USians use > administrate instead of administer, or whether it is specific to the > administration of computers?
It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software, possibly not. However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance.
Deividson Okopnik [deivid.okop at gmail.com]
2008/12/5 Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com>:
> Quoting Neil Youngman (ny@youngman.org.uk): > >> One for pedants corner here. >> >> I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where >> to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder >> where this variant came from. I have seen this before in many >> technical articles and I would like to know whether all USians use >> administrate instead of administer, or whether it is specific to the >> administration of computers? > > It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software, > possibly not. However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in > the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance. >
In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative - plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to basically the same thing in Portuguese.
René Pfeiffer [lynx at luchs.at]
On Dec 05, 2008 at 0905 -0300, Deividson Okopnik appeared and said:
> 2008/12/5 Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com>: > > Quoting Neil Youngman (ny@youngman.org.uk): > > > >> One for pedants corner here. > >> > >> I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where > >> to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder > >> where this variant came from. [...] > > > > It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software, > > possibly not. However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in > > the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance. > > In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative - > plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to > basically the same thing in Portuguese.
I could also have its origin from native German speakers. In German "administering" means "administrieren" which is very close to "administrating". I also heard this variant frequently from native German speakers speaking English.
Best, René.
Jimmy O'Regan [joregan at gmail.com]
2008/12/5 René Pfeiffer <lynx@luchs.at>:
> On Dec 05, 2008 at 0905 -0300, Deividson Okopnik appeared and said: >> 2008/12/5 Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com>: >> > Quoting Neil Youngman (ny@youngman.org.uk): >> > >> >> One for pedants corner here. >> >> >> >> I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where >> >> to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder >> >> where this variant came from. [...] >> > >> > It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software, >> > possibly not. However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in >> > the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance. >> >> In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative - >> plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to >> basically the same thing in Portuguese. > > I could also have its origin from native German speakers. In German > "administering" means "administrieren" which is very close to > "administrating". I also heard this variant frequently from native > German speakers speaking English. >
No; it's not at all a non-native English speaker's mistake, it's
simply an English-speaker's mistake[1]
It's simply a false derivation: 'administration', particularly in this context, is simply more common than 'administer'. As people are more familiar with the noun, they apply a verb derivation rule, and produce 'administrate', unaware that, properly, the noun 'administration' is a derivative of the verb 'administer'[2] -- in short, being able to come up with 'administrate' hints at a good command of English grammar, but with a small lapse in vocabulary.
[1] I saw 'configurate' written today by a woman I am sure speaks only English.
[2] Yeah, yeah, Latin this, Latin that
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 05:08:48PM +0000, Jimmy O'Regan wrote:
> 2008/12/5 René Pfeiffer <lynx@luchs.at>: > > On Dec 05, 2008 at 0905 -0300, Deividson Okopnik appeared and said: > >> 2008/12/5 Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com>: > >> > Quoting Neil Youngman (ny@youngman.org.uk): > >> > > >> >> One for pedants corner here. > >> >> > >> >> I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where > >> >> to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder > >> >> where this variant came from. [...] > >> > > >> > It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software, > >> > possibly not. However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in > >> > the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance. > >> > >> In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative - > >> plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to > >> basically the same thing in Portuguese. > > > > I could also have its origin from native German speakers. In German > > "administering" means "administrieren" which is very close to > > "administrating". I also heard this variant frequently from native > > German speakers speaking English. > > > > No; it's not at all a non-native English speaker's mistake, it's > simply an English-speaker's mistake[1]
One of the standard Okopnik household language-perversion snarks is "I be conversatiatin'."
No, we did not come up with it. The Katly One had to parse it and type it out while working as a transcription operator for the deaf.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * https://LinuxGazette.NET *
Chris Bannister [mockingbird at earthlight.co.nz]
On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 09:05:10AM -0300, Deividson Okopnik wrote:
> 2008/12/5 Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com>: > > Quoting Neil Youngman (ny@youngman.org.uk): > > > >> One for pedants corner here. > >> > >> I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where > >> to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder > >> where this variant came from. I have seen this before in many > >> technical articles and I would like to know whether all USians use > >> administrate instead of administer, or whether it is specific to the > >> administration of computers? > > > > It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software, > > possibly not. However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in > > the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance. > > > > In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative - > plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to > basically the same thing in Portuguese.
You can administer medicine but not administrate medicine.
--
Chris.
======
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god
than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
-- Stephen F Roberts
Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 08:44:44PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 09:05:10AM -0300, Deividson Okopnik wrote: > > > > In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative - > > plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to > > basically the same thing in Portuguese. > > You can administer medicine but not administrate medicine.
ben@Tyr:~$ A="%22administer a system%22" ben@Tyr:~$ lynx -dump -nolist "https://www.google.com/search?num=$results&hl=$lang&as_qdr=all&q=$A&btnG=Google+Search"|grep '^ *Results' Results 1 - 10 of about 12,600 for "administer a system". (0.18 ben@Tyr:~$ A="%22administrate a system%22" ben@Tyr:~$ lynx -dump -nolist "https://www.google.com/search?num=$results&hl=$lang&as_qdr=all&q=$A&btnG=Google+Search"|grep '^ *Results' Results 1 - 10 of about 75 for "administrate a system". (0.12
I.e., 12600 for 'administer' and 75 for 'administrate'. I think that people are taking "system administration" as a departure point and then converting it to "administrate a system" - incorrectly, in my opinion, perhaps primarily because it sounds so clunky - instead of "administer a system". There's something rather appealing in the image of someone "(ad)ministering to a system", anyway; it invokes the image of a kind nurse [1] rather than that of someone with a large stake-driving mallet, a running chainsaw, and a hell of an uncompromising attitude.
[1] Of course, we all know that the spirit of Simon Travaglia's creation
still lives on and that the latter is far more likely to be true... but,
y'know, we wouldn't have jobs if the cash customers ever found out, so
we've got to keep up the pretense.
-- * Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * https://LinuxGazette.NET *