...making Linux just a little more fun!
Mike Orr [sluggoster at gmail.com]
Sat, 2 Dec 2006 23:17:57 -0800
[Please cc me on replies coz I'm not subscribed to TAG.]
In November I said I'd gotten a Mac laptop and switched from Linux. https://linuxgazette.net/132/misc/lg/Nokia_tablet_article.html Well, a funny thing happened on the way to MacWorld. After being pleased as punch that I had a working webcam and could see my buddies in Europe on yahoo messenger, and could plug in multimedia devices and CDs and printers and have them just work immediately, and not have all these "plugin not available" messages in my web browser, other things started getting to me. My non-programmer friend who went from Windows to Mac and just raves about it does not understand any of this, but I miss being able to ...
- right-click windows and make them go to the back - hide the maximize button or make it maximize only vertically - change the window decorations or have the entire window border be a resize control - cut & paste by drag-move-click instead of drag, cmd-X, move, click, cmd-V - install the Gimp by just clicking an entry in the system package manager - find cool free software, which used to exist by the ton for the Mac but now all the worthwhile programs seem to be written for Unix, and you have to use third-party package managers (Fink or DarwinPorts) to install them -- which may or may not work. - compile a program that depends on Tk, even though I have Tk installed. (./configure doesn't recognize it even though it's in the default Mac location) - switch to a second desktop. (Multiple desktops are coming to the next version of Mac OS X, with much fanfare.) - have X apps that are first-class citizens. (Mac X11 is an application, and X apps are subapplications. Focus-follows-mouse works between X applications, but you have to click on an X window to raise it before using it if you're coming from a Mac application.)
Finally I thought, why am I knocking myself out trying to accommodate myself to the Mac when it's so easy on Linux. So I switched to my desktop computer again and installed Kubuntu (from Gentoo). Ahh, nice look-and-feel comes back! Configurability again! Thousands of software titles can be downloaded and installed and removed in a few easy steps!
As I've explored more of KDE as it's preconfigured on Kubuntu, I found that this version it does automatically start a player when you put a CD on, and opens a image directory when you plug a camera in. (Actually, you get a choice of several programs to open these in.) The new Yahoo Messenger for Linux has webcam options, so maybe if I get a USB webcam it will actually work on Linux now (I have a bunch of friends in Europe that I see only every 2-3 years. Hi bro's!) You can even drag n drop from one application (GQview image browser) to another (Firefox upload file dialog) and it pastes the absolute path of the file. That pretty much covers everything I wanted from the Mac.
I was kind of bummed I'd spent $1500 on this laptop I wasn't using. But I'm gonna lend it to my mom because she needs a computer, and her memory isn't what it was so she forgets how to do things (reading Thunderbird email) the day after I show her. She'll find the well-written manual and free classes helpful. The Mac comes with the best user's manual I've ever seen. It explains things from the standpoint of what non-tekkies want to do. One of the things my friend raves about is the friendly non-condescending attitude of the staff at the Apple store (no "you're stupid because you don't understand this" attitude like every other computer salesman he's encountered), and how they have free classes covering the kinds of things he wants to know about using his computer. You can't get a PC laptop with that kind of support. That got me thinking. If somebody opened a Linux storefront and staffed it with people who can talk non-tekkie, and wrote a really good users' manual, and offered free classes on how to use your computer, they'd sell a lot of systems. I've seen laptops with Linux preinstalled and I've always passed them up as being too expensive, but now I think my next PC laptop will be one of those. Why not let a company go through the hassle of getting Linux to work with the proprietary video card and hardware, and tell you definitively whether the built-in modem or wi-fi works with Linux before you buy it? That's worth another $500 to me compared to a generic laptop.
Two pieces of trivia to finish with...
1) It was funny reading the six-page EULA that came with the Mac. I knew I was going to accept it, but it reminded me I hadn't used commercial software for seven years. (Except a little bit of MS Office or custom Windows programs at work.)
2) The funniest thing about the Mac was seeing the "DVD player" application in the Applications folder. It was a shock to realize I could legally play a DVD on this computer. (!) I'd gotten so used to not being able to do this on Linux that I'd forgotten that other people do watch DVDs on their computers. But the funny thing is, I still haven't used it. Why would I want to watch a DVD on my computer when I can watch it on my TV?
Yes, I know I can install Linux on my Mac. I'm just not quite ready to delete my entire-disk partition and run the risk of turning it into a doorstop though....
-- Mike Orr <sluggoster@gmail.com>
Mike Orr [sluggoster at gmail.com]
Sat, 2 Dec 2006 23:21:53 -0800
On 12/2/06, Mike Orr <sluggoster@gmail.com> wrote:
> The new Yahoo Messenger for Linux has webcam options, so maybe if I
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Kopete
-- Mike Orr <sluggoster@gmail.com>
Peter Knaggs [peter.knaggs at gmail.com]
Sun, 3 Dec 2006 00:18:22 -0800
On 12/2/06, Mike Orr <sluggoster@gmail.com> wrote:
> Finally I thought, why am I knocking myself out trying to accommodate > myself to the Mac when it's so easy on Linux. So I switched to my > desktop computer again and installed Kubuntu (from Gentoo).
Hi Mike,
Hold on, I thought Kubuntu is a Debian-based, not Gentoo-based, right?
> Ahh, nice look-and-feel comes back! Configurability again!
Indeed. I switched a bunch of my machines to Ubuntu (Dapper Drake) over the last year or so, and I've been astounded by how stuff "just works".
And not just little things, stuff that usually takes ages to figure out, like 3D acceleration: https://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LinuxHardwareInfoToshibaTecra9000 and support for xvmc in the nVidia drivers: https://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LinuxHardwareInfoNvidia5200 All stuff that "just works" in Ubuntu.
And Ubuntu has such a nice simple "update" button that launches a cute graphical package update tool, I hardly even have to do any typing these days to keep the home systems up to date, which is a great time-saver.
I've been too busy with work to even hope to keep up with what's going on in linux these days, but being able to depend on linux even if you're too busy to keep track of the details is kind of reassuring.
I find that most proprietary software tends to go to pieces without a lot of care and feeding, but linux systems just keep right on going even if you're completely swamped and only have time to do the bare minimum (making backups and doing the security updates).
> Thousands of software titles can be downloaded and installed and removed in a few > easy steps!
Yep, too easy. Just need to watch out for the quirky package renaming
blitz that's been going on recently, with thunderbird becoming "icedove" and
ethereal becoming wireshark. Throws me for a loop when a program is
just "gone" but it's still "there" under a new name
> As I've explored more of KDE as it's preconfigured on Kubuntu, I found > that this version it does automatically start a player when you put a > CD on, and opens a image directory when you plug a camera in.
Yep, I was surprised by that too. Ubuntu even did the right thing for a couple of external firewire hard drives, and it gets the wireless stuff working on the laptop too easily now. Even the previous generation of pcHDTV card (the HD3000) works "out of the box".
> Why not let a company go through the hassle of getting > Linux to work with the proprietary video card and hardware, and tell > you definitively whether the built-in modem or wi-fi works with Linux > before you buy it? That's worth another $500 to me compared to a > generic laptop.
Or just use a slightly older laptop? Linux tends to run fine on hardware that Microsoft users have discarded as being too slow (or too small). And it runs great on Apple hardware, which is very nice in the first place.
Well maybe I had a spot of beginner's luck with Ubuntu, but my feeling is that Linux is pulling ahead faster every day, with more people joining in all the time.
Cheers, Peter.
Mike Orr [sluggoster at gmail.com]
Sun, 3 Dec 2006 00:38:18 -0800
On 12/3/06, Peter Knaggs <peter.knaggs@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/2/06, Mike Orr <sluggoster@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Finally I thought, why am I knocking myself out trying to accommodate > > myself to the Mac when it's so easy on Linux. So I switched to my > > desktop computer again and installed Kubuntu (from Gentoo). > > Hold on, I thought Kubuntu is a Debian-based, not Gentoo-based, right?
Correct. I used Debian for nine years, switched to Gentoo two years ago, and now came "back" to Kubuntu.
-- Mike Orr <sluggoster@gmail.com>
Faber J. Fedor [faber at linuxnj.com]
Sun, 3 Dec 2006 21:06:35 -0500
On 02/12/06 23:17 -0800, Mike Orr wrote:
> [Please cc me on replies coz I'm not subscribed to TAG.] > > In November I said I'd gotten a Mac laptop and switched from Linux. > https://linuxgazette.net/132/misc/lg/Nokia_tablet_article.html > Well, a funny thing happened on the way to MacWorld. After being > pleased as punch that I had a working webcam and could see my buddies > in Europe on yahoo messenger, and could plug in multimedia devices and > CDs and printers and have them just work immediately, and not have all > these "plugin not available" messages in my web browser,
You never tried to view a WMV file? I was shocked when my MacBook said it didn't know what to do with it!
> but I miss being able to ... > > - right-click windows and make them go to the back > - hide the maximize button or make it maximize only vertically > - change the window decorations or have the entire window border be a > resize control
I've never done any of those.
> - cut & paste by drag-move-click instead of drag, cmd-X, move, click, cmd-V
This, to me, is one of the things that makes Macs and Windows inferior to Linunx/X11/X. And the other thing? Right-button clicking in a scrollbar moves you up/down a page and middle button clicking jumps you to that spot in the document. On a OS X, it's an either-or proposition; you can't do both.
> - install the Gimp by just clicking an entry in the system package manager
Oh right, there are GUIs for that now, aren't there.
C'mon though, Mac OS X comes with bash, Perl, ruby, python, screen
Samba, postfix, etc. already installed. What do you need a GUI for?
> - find cool free software, which used to exist by the ton for the Mac > but now all the worthwhile programs seem to be written for Unix, and > you have to use third-party package managers (Fink or DarwinPorts) to > install them -- which may or may not work.
I'm still finding it hard to adjust to the idea of paying for software, at least for non-commercial use.
> - switch to a second desktop. (Multiple desktops are coming to the > next version of Mac OS X, with much fanfare.)
To be fair, they'll be able to do things with VDs that I've not seen done elsewhere: not only will you be able to hit a button and view all four desktops at once a la' Expose, you'll also be able to drag-n-drop between the Expose-d desktops.
Have you seen the hullaballo about BootCamp? The ability to boot multiple OSes on one machine is such an amazing thing to these people.
> Finally I thought, why am I knocking myself out trying to accommodate > myself to the Mac when it's so easy on Linux.
I don't think it's easier on Linux. I think it's more of a what-you-are-used-to mentality than anything else.
> As I've explored more of KDE as it's preconfigured on Kubuntu, I found > that this version it does automatically start a player when you put a > CD on,
That irritates me no matter which platform I'm on.
> I've seen laptops with Linux preinstalled and I've always passed them > up as being too expensive, but now I think my next PC laptop will be > one of those. Why not let a company go through the hassle of getting > Linux to work with the proprietary video card and hardware, and tell > you definitively whether the built-in modem or wi-fi works with Linux > before you buy it? That's worth another $500 to me compared to a > generic laptop.
I highly reccomend Emperor Linux. The Dell laptop I got from them back in 1999(?) had all the functionality of a Windows laptop.
> Why would I want to watch a DVD on my computer when I can watch it on > my TV?
You assume everyone owns a TV.
> Yes, I know I can install Linux on my Mac.
-- Regards, Faber Fedor President Linux New Jersey, Inc. 908-320-0357 800-706-0701
Kapil Hari Paranjape [kapil at imsc.res.in]
Mon, 4 Dec 2006 11:32:26 +0530
On Sun, 03 Dec 2006, Faber J. Fedor wrote:
> On 02/12/06 23:17 -0800, Mike Orr wrote: > > As I've explored more of KDE as it's preconfigured on Kubuntu, I found > > that this version it does automatically start a player when you put a > > CD on, > > That irritates me no matter which platform I'm on.
Automounting should certainly be something which one can toggle. My friend has a phone which offers its data-space as a USB storage device. When it is connected to a Mac, automount kicks in and so one has to go about un-mounting it everytime one wants to use the phone for dialout!
Other cribs about the Mac. I have still not figured out how to play oggs streams in a way that does not conflict with using iTunes for other sound streams. Perhaps the only solution is to bypass iTunes for all sound streams. (xmms2 anyone).
Note that Debian and Ubuntu install quite niftily on a Mac notebook. you need to install the broadcom wireless driver from non-free though.
Regards,
Kapil. --
Mike Orr [sluggoster at gmail.com]
Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:14:28 -0800
[Please cc on replies.]
> On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 11:32:26AM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > Note that Debian and Ubuntu install quite niftily on a Mac notebook. > > you need to install the broadcom wireless driver from non-free > > though.
The Kububtu and Ubuntu sites have CD images for PowerPC macs but not Intel Macs. Mine is a Mac PowerBook with a 2 GHz Intel Core Duo. Would the x86 packages work on it by any chance? Or what would I need?
-- Mike Orr <sluggoster@gmail.com>
Karl-Heinz Herrmann [kh1 at khherrmann.de]
Mon, 11 Dec 2006 00:14:15 +0100 (MET)
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:14:28 -0800 "Mike Orr" <sluggoster@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 11:32:26AM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > > Note that Debian and Ubuntu install quite niftily on a Mac notebook. > > > you need to install the broadcom wireless driver from non-free > > > though. > > The Kububtu and Ubuntu sites have CD images for PowerPC macs but not > Intel Macs. Mine is a Mac PowerBook with a 2 GHz Intel Core Duo. > Would the x86 packages work on it by any chance? Or what would I > need?
As far as I know a x86 Linux does work -- but Apple changed the x86 based Macs to some "modern" bios/boot system and to install winXX it is necessary to install apples boot-patch to emualte a boot sequence Win understands. That might be necessary for linux too -- or maybe not (any more).
K.-H.
Kapil Hari Paranjape [kapil at imsc.res.in]
Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:27:14 +0530
Hello,
On Sun, 10 Dec 2006, Mike Orr wrote:
> [Please cc on replies.] > > > On Mon, Dec 04, 2006 at 11:32:26AM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > > Note that Debian and Ubuntu install quite niftily on a Mac notebook. > > > you need to install the broadcom wireless driver from non-free > > > though. > > The Kububtu and Ubuntu sites have CD images for PowerPC macs but not > Intel Macs. Mine is a Mac PowerBook with a 2 GHz Intel Core Duo. > Would the x86 packages work on it by any chance? Or what would I > need?
The LiveCD boots on my friend's machine. I don't have access to a machine on which I can attempt installation to hard disk ;)
Kapil. --
Mike Orr [sluggoster at gmail.com]
Sun, 10 Dec 2006 20:05:25 -0800
On 12/10/06, Kapil Hari Paranjape <kapil@imsc.res.in> wrote:
> The LiveCD boots on my friend's machine. I don't have access to a > machine on which I can attempt installation to hard disk ;)
Thanks, I'll let y'all know how well it works. If anyone knows anyone who's gotten it to work with the Mac's boot manager, I'd appreciate hearing.
-- Mike Orr <sluggoster@gmail.com>