...making Linux just a little more fun!
jeff [moe at blagblagblag.org]
Mon, 02 Oct 2006 15:44:34 -0300
I have a similar Zaurus 3100. I checked out both Openzaurus' OPIE & GPE. They were nice, but felt too similar to a palm pilot or a "plain" old PDA.
If you really want your Zaurus to be just like a "regular" PC running a full
blown OS, OpenBSD on the Zaurus is great. It's the full OS installation with
gcc, X windows, etc. Basically, if it compiles on OpenBSD it'll work on the
Zaurus. Completely self-hosted development--no need for cross compilers on
other boxes. Combined with a lightweight desktop such as blackbox it's amazing.
-Jeff
Benjamin A. Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
Mon, 2 Oct 2006 18:27:02 -0400
On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 03:44:34PM -0300, jeff wrote:
> I have a similar Zaurus 3100. I checked out both Openzaurus' OPIE & GPE. They > were nice, but felt too similar to a palm pilot or a "plain" old PDA. > > If you really want your Zaurus to be just like a "regular" PC running a full > blown OS, OpenBSD on the Zaurus is great. It's the full OS installation with > gcc, X windows, etc. Basically, if it compiles on OpenBSD it'll work on the > Zaurus. Completely self-hosted development--no need for cross compilers on > other boxes. Combined with a lightweight desktop such as blackbox it's amazing.
Nice tip, Jeff. I've spent time playing around with a PDA (iPaq) in the past, but had regretfully concluded that it's still a bit too early in the game to really rely on one for mobile computing (Opie and GPE went a long way toward convincing me otherwise, but weren't quite good enough.)
The features that Edgar described, plus your follow-up here, have
definitely got me thinking about a PDA again - although the price of the
3100 seems a little too steep for me at the moment. I'll give it a few
months... I'm sure there will be something New And Hot and Amazing by
that time (Moore's law says so, anyway), the 3100 will cost about the
same as a cup of coffee and a good Danish, and all will be well in my
world.
* Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * https://LinuxGazette.NET *
Benjamin A. Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
Thu, 5 Oct 2006 21:32:54 -0400
[ Jeff, please CC all responses to this thread to the list; thanks. ]
On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 10:14:03PM -0300, jeff wrote:
> Benjamin A. Okopnik wrote: > >On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 03:44:34PM -0300, jeff wrote: > >>I have a similar Zaurus 3100. I checked out both Openzaurus' OPIE & GPE. > >>They were nice, but felt too similar to a palm pilot or a "plain" old PDA. > >> > >>If you really want your Zaurus to be just like a "regular" PC running a > >>full blown OS, OpenBSD on the Zaurus is great. It's the full OS > >>installation with gcc, X windows, etc. Basically, if it compiles on > >>OpenBSD it'll work on the Zaurus. Completely self-hosted development--no > >>need for cross compilers on other boxes. Combined with a lightweight > >>desktop such as blackbox it's amazing.
Oh, heck no. Senator McCarthy would have called Linux and OpenBSD "fellow travelers" [1] - all Open Source discussion is welcome here. Although most of our content is focused on Linux, for the times when a Linux solution is not yet available, it's very nice to hear that another Free Unixy OS is.
[1] https://okopnik.freeshell.org/img/commielinux.jpg
https://okopnik.freeshell.org/img/commielinux1.jpg
> I did try to find a similar "full install" with the linux kernel, but there > really wasn't anything. Someone had started and abandoned putting debian on > there, which would have been cool. I poked at pdaXrom(?) or similar, but it > was just different but not that much better--still too much of a PDA than a > computer for me. I also set up all the cross compilers and all that jazz > for openzaurus, but man, that's quite a bit of work just to get started... > > The ability to just `tar zxf foo.tar.gz && make && make install` right in > your pocket is just too good. At one point I was running openbsd-current so > the entire install was compiled on the device itself!
Yeah, that carries an extremely high coolness factor. It must have
taken a while, though!
> >The features that Edgar described, plus your follow-up here, have > >definitely got me thinking about a PDA again - although the price of the > >3100 seems a little too steep for me at the moment. I'll give it a few > >months... I'm sure there will be something New And Hot and Amazing by > >that time (Moore's law says so, anyway), the 3100 will cost about the > >same as a cup of coffee and a good Danish, and all will be well in my > >world.
Good grief - QuakeIII and FGFS on the go? I'd better not buy one for a
while, then.
> The GUI web browsers are konq-e (an old version of konqueror embedded > someone did a couple years back), minimo (embedded mozilla--a bit old as > well). They don't handle funky websites very well. Things like lynx, > links+, elinks, etc work fine and links+ even in graphical mode (though its > a console browser). w3m I can't get to compile due to something weird in > boehm-gc... So browsing is decent, but not perfect. To make it perfect, I > just run `firefox` on a remote box and export the display. It's X remember! > Then you save RAM, get javascript, etc... > > Sorry, am I gushing?
With full justification, if so. Given the above, I would be too.
Despite my joking about the price, this is the direction in which computing is moving. If not within the next year, then certainly within the next five years this kind of machines - and much more powerful ones, as well - will be commodity items, with prices to match. I'm really looking forward to that.
> There are some drawbacks to openbsd: > > * The openbsd install is a small trick--but if you still have the original > japanese (or english translated) ROM, its straightforward (such as supplied > by the german vendor). It even detects my wifi card and installs across the > 'net. If you have openzaurus on there already you have to revert to the > old ROMs before installing which can be /quite/ a hassle. I know of no > other way to do it. > > * Screen rotation doesn't work on the fly because I don't think it's > supported in X. > > * The Secure Digital card reader doesn't have a driver (i think openzaurus > gets around this by `insmod -f`ing the binary driver from Sharp, but I > don't know for sure). > > * Sometimes it freaks coming out of sleep mode. This probably happens in > linux too. It seems to be happening less (I have 3.9 on here now). > > * The install is a bit more difficult than a typical i386 openbsd install > and an openbsd install is quite a bit more difficult than a "standard" > linux install. Partitioning is probably the most confusing for gnulinux > folks.
Thanks, Jeff; this will make a good "from the front lines" report for any of our readers who want to install a free Unix-flavor OS on a PDA. Much appreciated!
* Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * https://LinuxGazette.NET *
Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]
Thu, 5 Oct 2006 18:38:30 -0700
On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 03:44:34PM -0300, jeff wrote:
>If you really want your Zaurus to be just like a "regular" PC running a >full blown OS, OpenBSD on the Zaurus is great. It's the full OS >installation with gcc, X windows, etc. Basically, if it compiles on >OpenBSD it'll work on the Zaurus. Completely self-hosted development--no >need for cross compilers on other boxes. Combined with a lightweight >desktop such as blackbox it's amazing.
Extreme coolness factor, Jeff. Now, just set up your Zaurus as your company's Internet gateway / firewall / mail server. ;->
--
Cheers, Higgeldy Piggeldy "Phooey on Freud and his
Rick Moen Hamlet of Elsinore Psychoanalysis -- rick at linuxmafia.com Ruffled the critics by Oedipus, Schmoedipus,
Dropping this bomb: I just loved Mom."
jeff [moe at blagblagblag.org]
Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:56:13 -0300
Rick Moen wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 02, 2006 at 03:44:34PM -0300, jeff wrote: > >> If you really want your Zaurus to be just like a "regular" PC running a >> full blown OS, OpenBSD on the Zaurus is great. It's the full OS >> installation with gcc, X windows, etc. Basically, if it compiles on >> OpenBSD it'll work on the Zaurus. Completely self-hosted development--no >> need for cross compilers on other boxes. Combined with a lightweight >> desktop such as blackbox it's amazing.
Oh, it'll do it! vive pf! Now i just need a company.
I once ran an ISP with a P100 doing httpd, stmp, pop, etc. Umm, and the same "server" also ran FVWM and netscape, so I could surf the 'net. ;) My zaurus has the same amount of ram as that box...
jeff [moe at blagblagblag.org]
Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:49:54 -0300
Benjamin A. Okopnik wrote:
> [ Jeff, please CC all responses to this thread to the list; thanks. ]
pong
> Oh, heck no. Senator McCarthy would have called Linux and OpenBSD > "fellow travelers" [1] - all Open Source discussion is welcome here. > Although most of our content is focused on Linux, for the times when a > Linux solution is not yet available, it's very nice to hear that > another Free Unixy OS is.
Hah! I'm definitely rolling the commielinux1.jpg into the next version of BLAG, if I may so spam.
Nice detournement, btw.
[compiled the whole freakin' thing]
> Yeah, that carries an extremely high coolness factor.
On the order of days. But I'd say after a week or so I had "everything", including stuff with lots of deps (when starting from scratch) like mplayer, gnumeric, etc. Not that I actually /used/ gnumeric on there, of course. ;)
> Good grief - QuakeIII and FGFS on the go? I'd better not buy one for a > while, then.
Heh. I actually haven't tried quake yet. But it's pre-compiled already (in packages), if that says anything. My gf was addicted to defendguin...
> Despite my joking about the price, this is the direction in which > computing is moving. If not within the next year, then certainly within > the next five years this kind of machines - and much more powerful ones, > as well - will be commodity items, with prices to match. I'm really > looking forward to that.
Yes. Will be nice... There's a reason this sucker is only available in japan though. It's a showcase for sharp, methinks. There's few parts for bleeding edge toys... I don't see prices dropping /too/ quickly nor these CPUs increasing radically in the near term (e.g. not like HD storage or something). What we all want is a battery revolution... (and an FPU...)
> Thanks, Jeff; this will make a good "from the front lines" report for > any of our readers who want to install a free Unix-flavor OS on a PDA. > Much appreciated!
No prob. I'm not sure how LG works honestly. For all i know, this is doing email->web. ;) Feel free to snag anything useful i've written and put it wherever you find convenient, editedadid as needed. ;)
hasta luego,
-Jeff
P.S. Have you played with asterisk 1.4 yet? Am I gushing again???
Benjamin A. Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]
Fri, 6 Oct 2006 13:03:07 -0400
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 11:49:54PM -0300, jeff wrote:
> Benjamin A. Okopnik wrote: > > > Oh, heck no. Senator McCarthy would have called Linux and OpenBSD > > "fellow travelers" [1] - all Open Source discussion is welcome here. > > Although most of our content is focused on Linux, for the times when a > > Linux solution is not yet available, it's very nice to hear that > > another Free Unixy OS is. > > Hah! I'm definitely rolling the commielinux1.jpg into the next version of BLAG, > if I may so spam. > > Nice detournement, btw.
[laugh] Ah, you're one of those art people! I'm not the one who created them, though - a Swedish friend of mine from another, unrelated forum turned me onto the first one but did not have any attribution for it, and when I went searching for the filename on the net, I found only the second one (alas, also with no attribution.)
> > Despite my joking about the price, this is the direction in which > > computing is moving. If not within the next year, then certainly within > > the next five years this kind of machines - and much more powerful ones, > > as well - will be commodity items, with prices to match. I'm really > > looking forward to that. > > Yes. Will be nice... There's a reason this sucker is only available in japan > though. It's a showcase for sharp, methinks. There's few parts for bleeding > edge toys... I don't see prices dropping /too/ quickly nor these CPUs > increasing radically in the near term (e.g. not like HD storage or something).
I'm thinking in terms of the economies of scale when the "small"
revolution finally takes off (alas, the timing of this is the rock on
which many ventures have foundered so far...) The two things that
everyone appears to be waiting for is a) a reasonable input method for
PDAs (carrying a fold-up keyboard is somewhere between an oddity and a
non-starter), and b) a display that can be read by the over-40 set
without squinting. There's a lot of new stuff in the latter category,
and a few tentative advances in the former; the important thing is that
there's now a "big money" sign attached to progress in either one, and
that tends to focus people's energies quite well.
I wouldn't mind carrying a roll-up keyboard and a top-quality PDA instead of a laptop if I could do everything I need. Add some sort of a good-quality collapsible display on top of that, and you'd own 3/4 of the laptop market within the year, and the rest within five years. I don't know when it's going to happen, but it's not a matter of "if" anymore.
> What we all want is a battery revolution... (and an FPU...)
Have you seen the latest generation of batteries in the power tool market? If you haven't, stop by your local hardware store. 1/3rd the weight of the old NiCds, and about twice as much output torque as the average corded tools (!) I'm going to be buying one of these tool kits in the near future:
https://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.jsp?pn=100490041
It's not just hype, either; I've spent an hour or two at the store talking to grimy contractors who've been buying these things by the truckload, and they're all just raving about the ability to bust concrete and drill holes all day long without stopping or changing batteries.
https://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=15913&ch=nanotech
Also, look up "betavoltaics", "nanobattery", "zinc matrix", and "nanotube capacitors" (the last is very exciting - essentially instant charge, "battery life" thousands of times longer than a standard battery, etc.) There's a lot of good stuff on the way, and we're definitely headed in the right direction.
> > Thanks, Jeff; this will make a good "from the front lines" report for > > any of our readers who want to install a free Unix-flavor OS on a PDA. > > Much appreciated! > > No prob. I'm not sure how LG works honestly. For all i know, this is doing > email->web. ;)
Pretty much, except for a little filtering capacity (at the end of the
month, our Mailbag editor ruthlessly prunes away the noise and leaves
only the signal.
> Feel free to snag anything useful i've written and put it > wherever you find convenient, editedadid as needed. ;) > > hasta luego, > > -Jeff > > P.S. Have you played with asterisk 1.4 yet? Am I gushing again???
Actually, I hadn't even heard of it. If you feel like gushing about it,
please take a look at out Author Guide and send me the results. ))
https://linuxgazette.net/faq/author.html
* Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * https://LinuxGazette.NET *